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Gâlceava ateistului cu ateii. Despre Dawkins si forumul lui

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26 Feb 2010 la 01:00 97 comentarii 1526 vizualizari.

Azi avem un nou episod din apriga dispută atei vs. creştini (sau atei vs. atei de data asta). Unul care poate fi savuros pentru cei care mai au simţul umorului şi enervant pentru cei care l-au pierdut pe drum. Însă, dincolo de umor, întâmplarea relatată are tristeţea şi penibilul ei. Acesta este un guest post scris de prietenul meu Cristi Voiculescu. Cristi e piteştean stabilit în Bucureşti, are 31 de ani, soţie şi doi copii. Îl găsiţi pe blogul chestiuni.info.

Richard Dawkins, celebrul ateist militant, şi-a anunţat utilizatorii forumului ataşat site-ului personal că vrea să schimbe câteva reguli. Reacţia acestora l-a lăsat mască pe vitriolimea sa. (sursa)

Deşi regula era simplă,

“Starting a new discussion will require approval, so we ask that you only submit new discussions that are truly relevant to reason and science.”

cuvioşii ateişti militanţi au început să înjure în “templul raţiunii” ca la uşa cortului.

Ce le-a venit la gură ar pune în umbră repertoriul oricărui stelist înfocat după ce ia bătaie echipa favorită.

“Suppose you found yourself described as an utter twat a suppurating rectum. A suppurating rat’s rectum. A suppurating rat’s rectum inside a dead skunk that’s been shoved up a week-old dead rhino’s twat. Or suppose that somebody on the same website expressed a sudden urge to ram a fistful of nails down your throat. Also to trip you up and kick you in the guts. And imagine seeing your face described, again by an anonymous poster, as a slack jawed turd in the mouth mug if ever I saw one.”

“What do you have to do to earn vitriol like that? Eat a baby?” se întreabă domnia sa.

Păi ce să faceţi, domnule Dawkins, aţi impus nişte reguli unei comunități. Aveaţi dreptul să le împuneţi? Aveaţi, că doar e forumul domniei voastre, creat cu un anume scop în minte. Era normal să ştiţi mai bine decât berbecii care-l populează ce e bine şi ce e rău. Da’ te-nţelegi cu ateii? Ăştia cum nu le convine o regulă cum îl reneagă pe creatorul ei.

Eu vă zic, să ştiţi la ce să vă aşteptaţi: întâi o să spună că astea sunt nişte reguli expirate scrise într-o postare care nu mai e de actualitate. Apoi că forumul ăsta nu e creaţia domniei voastre ci că a apărut prin generare spontană în urmă cu miliarde de ani, după care a evoluat prin mutaţii succesive şi selecţie naturală. Că administratorii blogului au creat ideea de Dawkins şi regulile doar ca să ţină masele de utilizatori în frâu în timp ce ei se îmbogăţesc pe spinarea acestora, după care unul din ei o să scoată o carte care se va vinde ca pâinea caldă cu titlul The Dawkins Delusion în care va face mişto de cretinii care cred că dumneavoastră sunteţi creatorul forumului. În cele din urmă vor strânge bani ca să pună pe autobuzele din Londra bannere precum cel de mai jos:

Vedeți acuma, domnule Dawkins, cât de greu e să fii Dumnezeu? E greu cu ateii…

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97 comments
  • 1

    Problema nu-i cu ateii adevarati, oamenii impacati cu sine, agnosticii, ignosticii, etc. Problema deriva din faptul ca forumul ala si altele similare sunt pline de ”atei de duminica”, de pustani de 16-18 ani care cu fiecare ocazie gasesc apt un topic de tip ”Christians suck”. Evident, cum forumul in sine nu e un forum de tip ”Christians Suck”ci unul centrat pe multe alte teme (read Dawkins hugely influential scientifical works) omul s-a gandit ca ar fi bine sa desemneze niste limite.

    P.S : Dawkins n-are profesia de ”ateu militant”. Are totusi o cariera in spate, una pe care nu multi o pot duce.

  • 2

    Intamplarea este deplorabila, dar tonul condescendent in care este relatata de autor e si mai deplorabil. Ma rog, e un site de opinii, so e ok sa ai un parti pris. Cu toate acestea, ar fi ok ca macar sa-l enunti de la inceput.

  • 3

    Vedeti acuma, domnule Cristi Voiculescu, cit de greu e sa vorbiti despre Dawkins fara sa fi citit “The Selfish Gene”, “The Blind Watchmaker”, “Climbind Mount Improbable” sau “Unweaving the Rainbow”?

  • 4

    Adica doar crestinii aveau voie pina acum sa se dea in stamba in felul asta? Duc si eu logica pina la capat, cu dihotomia infipta de autor precum bomboana pe coliva cu tot.

  • 5

    total irelevant la subiect, dar na, e dragut sa dam foc la oameni de paie, nu?
    prostia din pacate e o caracteristica independenta de religie sau de lipsa acesteia (oricat le-ar placea unora sa creada altfel). sunt convins ca sunt gramezi de forumuri ‘crestine’ pe care se gaseste fix aceeasi atitudine din partea unor comentatori. internetul e mare.
    amuzant? poate, dar slab de tot.

    Kozminovici
    2010-02-26 02:42:53 | Raporteaza
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  • 6

    Una dintre cele mai inapte postari de pe voxpublica. Ce treaba are sula cu prefectura?
    Dawkins nu este un “ateu militant”, Dawkins este, cel mult, un militant pentru adevar. Chiar el recunoaste ca nu poate demonstra inexistenta lui Dumnezeu. (Eu pot, dar asta e alta poveste.)
    Daca ar fi sa pastrez tonul postarii, as spune ca idiotii care scriu mizerii pe site-ul lui Dawkins sunt crestini deghizati. Adevarul este insa ca nu trebuie sa fii vreu geniu pentru a fi ateu. Trebuie doar sa nu fii prea prost.
    De asemenea, cerinta lui Dawkins este de bun simt. La urma urmei site-ul abordeaza teme stiintifice, iar nu frustrari ca in voxpublica.
    (Apreciez replica lui Vlad Stoiculesc desi e un pic cam moale pentru ineptia articolului)
    (

    radu fefceac
    2010-02-26 03:00:29 | Raporteaza
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  • 7

    puscas si “invitatul”, voi stiti ce e sofismul?
    nu, nu-i termen ateu, tzine de bibilica

    ps: vanghelie merge la biserica? merge.
    bah, ce injura crestinii astia!!!

  • 8

    Interesant e faptul ca autorul articolului isi intemeiaza argumentatia vehementa pe o singura “scriere”, ignorandu-le complet pe toate celelalte ce vizeaza subiectul. Mie imi pare cunoscuta atitudinea.

    richard
    2010-02-26 03:10:01 | Raporteaza
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  • 9

    Inca o postare fara obiect. Ateii nu sint o ‘comunitate’ supozata sa aiba o coerenta interioara impecabila, sa nu se certe etc. Ateii sint indivizi si ca atare ei au opinii, multe, multe, greu de urmarit si de inteles de catre tantalai.
    Dawkins este un savant remarcabil, nu un ‘ateu militant’. Ca a facut, toata viata lui, efortul sa spuna, pe silabe, cum e cu natura si dzeu, ar trebui sa ii aduca un credit urias. Si este respectat, de catre oamenii decenti si cu o minima viziune a relatiei dintre viata personala si univers.

    Tallis
    2010-02-26 03:15:06 | Raporteaza
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  • 10

    @Vlad Stoiculescu, chiar daca interventia ta e logica si salutara, ma tem ca mai mult o sa dea munitii la alde astia care vor musai sa-i incadreze pe toti in tipare. si pe newton l-au scos crestin, si-n creationism au bagat demonstratii doar pretins “stiintifice”, iar discutiile pe temele astea sunt mai mereu insotite doar de patima si nonsens

    @puscas, tu ai o pasarica zdravana cu religia asta si te discreditezi singur. omul cu-adevarat deschis la minte nu-mparte toti suporterii in aia cu steaua, aia cu dinamo. mai sunt destui destul de destupati sa le placa doar fotbalul si-un meci bun. grow up

  • 11

    Nu mi-am pierdut simtul umorului, dar m-am enervat. Ce sa fac?

    @Puscas: maturizeaza-te.

  • 12

    [...] si comentati restul articolului pe Voxpublica. Prin amabilitatea lui Florin Puscastl_title = "Gâlceava ateistului cu ateii. Despre Dawkins si [...]

  • 13

    Comparatia intre administratorul unui site si dumnezeu o gasesc foarte amuzanta in stupiditatea ei. Sper ca postarea asta a vrut sa fie o gluma altfel cineva cred ca are probleme grave.

  • 14

    @Tallis: “Ateii sint indivizi si ca atare ei au opinii, multe, multe, greu de urmarit si de inteles de catre tantalai.”
    Explica-i lui Dawkins asta, ca el e stupefiat de reactia lor!

  • 15

    @xyz: In sfarsit cineva care are simtul umorului si a inteles ca e vorba de o gluma.
    Comparatia este insa intre Dawkins si Dumnezeu, pe post de administratori ar fi popii :)

  • 16

    Bravo d-le Puscas!Urmarind postarile la articol,se pare ca i-ai descris perfect pe atei.Poate cu putin prea multa blandete!

    inteligentaplange
    2010-02-26 09:31:00 | Raporteaza
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  • 17

    :) :) :)

    Totusi, citind comentariile :( :( :(

    @Florin Puscas: e bine asa, continuati.

    TitusL
    2010-02-26 09:43:38 | Raporteaza
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  • 18

    Daca Richard Dawkins nu e , pe langa altele, si un pasionat programator de php si nu numai, nici din greseala nu e creatorul forumului ;)

  • 19

    Multa lume face confuzie intre ateu si destept sau credincios si prostovan sau invers. Realitatea e ca sunt multi inteligenti si multi retarzi de ambele tabere. Poti fi ateu din motive de reasoning sau pur si simplu, din “gut feeling”. Credeti voi ca Iliescu e ateu rational?
    Cat priveste credinciosii, acestia se impart imho in cei care n-au reusit sa intre in contact cu rationalismul si cei care au fost prostiti pe fata de biserici si resping cu inversunare argumentele.

    Razvan
    2010-02-26 10:02:45 | Raporteaza
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  • 20

    “Da’ te-nţelegi cu ateii? Ăştia cum nu le convine o regulă cum îl reneagă pe creatorul ei.”

    Una din frazele cele mai inspirate pe care le-am citit in ultimul timp. Felicitari.

    daniel
    2010-02-26 10:08:04 | Raporteaza
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  • 21

    @Razvan: Exemple de argumente “stiintifice” gasesti pe National Geographic,emiunea “Universul stiut”.Astfel,conform teoriei bing-bang,universul s-a format din explozia unei gamali de ac de enrgie pura,adica din NIMIC!Pai partea asta cu creatul din NIMIC era pana acuma considerata o dogma a creationistilor,de cand a devenit “argument stiintific”?

    inteligentaplange
    2010-02-26 10:29:16 | Raporteaza
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  • 22

    @Razvan: Referitor la “prostiti pe fata” e greu cum de nu inteleg credinciosii existenta unor universuri cu n+1 dimensiuni,caci doar au fost demonstrate matematic,chiar daca Hubble Bublle nu le-a gasit pana acuma!

    dalailama
    2010-02-26 10:43:34 | Raporteaza
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  • 23

    @Florin Puscas:
    In sfarsit un articol cu umor de calitate (dupa standardul meu – explicitez, cu toate ca era implicit, de dragul siferinzilor de silogismofobie).

    P.S. Ai vazut ca am un fan?! :O, o da prin aratura, dar ii fan!
    P.P.S : “Science is interesting, and if you don’t agree you can fuck off” – was there ever a Dawkins?!

    StiintaPlange
    2010-02-26 10:49:10 | Raporteaza
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  • 24

    Radu, C : De-aia am si incercat sa nu provoc. Pe un topic despre Darwin se ajunsese la vreo 300 de comentarii in care cineva ne ”ameninta” ca daca nu vedem lumina lui Iisus vom arde in flacari.

    Altfel, Tallis spunea ceva interesant : In cadrul ideologiilor personale care nu implica doctrine stricte, e normal sa apara diferente. Un ateu puternic anti-teist si nu foarte matur poate oricand intra in conflict cu un agnostic mai tolerant pe teme de tip ”incurajarea religiei prin ignorarea fenomenului”. Dupa 50 de topicuri de genul ”Cum e mai bine sa fi : agnostic, ateu, ignostic..bla bla” (de parca un forum iti da genul asta de raspuns) si ”Christians are bad” omul probabil s-a gandit si la imaginea lui in spatiul public si academic.

  • 25

    ^sa fii (scriu de pe mobil)

  • 26

    Aaaaaau! Mi-e jena mie pt articolul asta. Cata ignoranta…Si sa mai ai curajul sa si scrii…

  • 27

    Dawkins nu este ateu militant…

    Daca te-ai fi informat ai fi aflat ca printre prietenii lui se numara preoti, apreciaza un Francis Collins ca fiind o persoana inteligenta chit ca acesta il vede pe Isus intr-o cadere de apa, a semnat un memoriu adresat lui Blair pentru eliminiarea creationismului din scoli impreuna cu preoti anglicani, si in plus recunoaste dreptul natural la credinta al fiecaria si respectul pentru traditie.

    Ce nu-i convine lui Puscas este ca Dawkins este contra institutionalizarii religiei, iar principiile seculariste
    ale lui Dawkins sunt prin urmare confundate cu “ateism militant”. Da, Dawkins este ateu, dar in demersul lui acest aspect este la fel de relevant precum Dawkins ar fi fost fan Chelsea si Liverpool… intrucat demersul facut de el nu este asumat doar de atei!

    Un scriitoras de blog de 23 de ani isi inchipuie insa ca l-a prins pe Dawkins cu ceva…Ridicol!

  • 28

    eu stiu ce sa zic..? ca nu sunt ni’ cu ni’ cu alti.. ca sunt impotriva religiei de cand m-o batut popa-n sat ca furam din banii de lumanari, iar de stiinta nu m-am prea atins de cand am aflat ca ala, neutonu, a aflat de gravitatie cand o cazut maru-n crestet, si mi-o fos frica sa nu pice ceva pe mine conform printipului ‘tot ce atarna se balangane’.
    da nici matali cand ai scris asta nu ai fost nici cu mintea intreaga nici cu sufletu-n rai. adicatelea sa inteleg eu cum ne-ai descris ca unu se cearta cu unii ca injura si ca zice sa nu injuri si aia zice ca injura ca nuii lasa sa injure..
    mare subiect..mare.. da, cun zicea varu ghita, uite colea e padurea da nu o poci vedea din cauza copacilor…
    despre ce vorbeam?

    ateu credincios
    2010-02-26 11:21:30 | Raporteaza
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  • 29

    @Yorga: Dawkins o fi vreun sfant…Sau parca majoritatea discutilor de pe voxpublica au vreun sens.Or fi hrana pt un spirit pe care nu il recunoasteti?

  • 30

    @Ana: ma indoiesc ca pe Dawkins il mai mira multe lucruri; nu numai ca a luptat cu prostii toata viata lui, dar mai are si o lunga experienta de profesorat, ceea ce inseamna ca agresiunile unor copii nervosi (plus virtuale) nu-l afecteaza nicidecum.

    Recomand documentarele lui mai recente, mai in tonul mythbusters, unde expresiile lui faciale sint priceless :) )

    Nenea e admirabil in calmul lui si extraordinar de tonic, nicidecum demiurg si mincat de emotii mici – cum incearca sa-l zugraveasca autorul postarii prezente.

    Tallis
    2010-02-26 11:47:44 | Raporteaza
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  • 31

    Interesant articolul. Felicitari autorului!

  • 32

    @Vlad Stoiculescu: spuneam ca diferentele de opinie vin de la sine ori de cite ori mai sint lucrui de spus si descoperit samd – adica, in stiinta si aiurea,intotdeauna :) ;in opozitie cu ceea ce asuma postarea dlui Puscas, anume ca daca ateii se mai si cotonogesc e clar ca sint ridicoli si n-au dreptate etc.

    Culmea e insa ca, dupa cum stii, Dawkins vine cu un mesaj mult mai ‘ecumenic’ decit confratii lui savanti – el nu spune pur si simplu ca there is no god so you better get used to it (and die alone), ci oameni buni, natura e minunata, tot ce ne inconjoara e plin de mister si pasiune, asa ca de fapt n-aveti nevoie de nici un principiu divin ca sa va legitimati existenta, doar din stele venim si acolo ne intoarcem :) Anyway…tataie e beton. Nu merita sarcasme ieftine.

    Tallis
    2010-02-26 11:59:41 | Raporteaza
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  • 33

    Comentariu sters. Motiv: acasă la tine vorbeşti despre ce vrei. Aici există nişte reguli. Regula numărul 1: faci referire la familie, nu îţi aprob comentariul.

  • 34

    @StiintaPlange: Pentru ca te-ai luat de mine,te las sa plangi numai pe tine.De ce zici ca o iau pe aratura?Inseamna ca nu ai vazut filmul cu bing bang de pe national geographic,hai sa ti-l povestesc eu:la inceput,cand a explodat gamalia de ac,particulele erau de doua feluri,cele bune alcatuiau materia,iar cele rele antimateria,care se anihilau reciproc..Si s-au batut ele pret de cateva milisecunde si materia a castigat.Si umblandsubparticulele hai hui prin univers,au vazut ca nu aveau masa.Unele au intrat prin niste campuri magnetice si au capatat masa,putand apoi sa formeze constructii mai complexe,cum ar fi atomul.Cele amase fara masa,nu au format aglomerari si bantuie sinure prin univers si acuma.Deci Legea lui Newton nu este chiar universala,nu se aplica neutrinilor.Apoi s-au format galaxiile,etc,si tot cautand savantii bosonul lui Dumnezeu,au descoperit ca marginile universului accelereaza si acuma,la 15 miliarde de ani dupa explozie,ceea ce contrazice ce credeau ei,ca viteza trebuia sa scada,din cauza gravitatiei aparute intre galaxii.In ceva timp legaturile care tin universul la un loc se vor rupe si universul va exploda.Cam atata si cu stiinta asta pt azi.

    inteligentarade
    2010-02-26 12:48:06 | Raporteaza
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  • 35

    Tallis : The fairies on the bottom of the garden :P ?

    Sa inteleg ca particulele de antimaterie sunt ”rele” ?

  • 36

    @Vlad Stoiculescu:

    “Sa inteleg ca particulele de antimaterie sunt ”rele” ?”

    :) Nu am urmarit atent discutia ta cu Tallis, dar..ca o remarca (ironica) …un univers format doar din antimaterie este la fel de frumos si armonios cu al nostru; daca insa, un astfel de univers se intersecteaza cu al nostru rezultatul nu este decat un dezastru!

  • 37

    Mai rar asa postare penibila si lipsita de logica.

  • 38

    Yorga, Tallis : Scuze, nu era vorba despre discutia cu Tallis ci despre afirmatia lui ‘inteligentarade’ adica despre :

    ”la inceput,cand a explodat gamalia de ac,particulele erau de doua feluri,cele bune alcatuiau materia,iar cele rele antimateria,care se anihilau reciproc.”

  • 39

    @Paul:

    “Mai rar asa postare penibila si lipsita de logica.”

    Eee, si tu acuma…asta e o postare subtil criptica, cam ca in anagrama aia cu “Paul Everac”! :)

  • 40

    @Vlad Stoiculescu:

    :) :) OK! Acum inteleg!

    …Totusi mi s-a parut buna intrebarea ta cu
    “Sa inteleg ca particulele de antimaterie sunt ”rele” ?” :)

  • 41

    Salut

    Il citesc si il respect pe Dawkins.

    Nu stiu nimic de forumul lui. articolul asta nu mi-a dat impresia unui atac, dar nici nu sunt sigur ca l-am inteles, poate se vrea un atac/ misto asupra lui Dawkins.

    Daca asta a fost scopul postarii, mistoul de atei, a fost prea subtil pt mine :)

    In orice caz, dle comentator, mult succes in religia pe care o aveti, daca o aveti. Important e sa va simtiti bine pe dinauntru. In rest, oameni suntem cu totii, eu sunt ateu dar accept cu placere prietenii cu credinciosi ( orice credinta), singura conditie e sa impartasim principii comune si respect fata de semeni. Credinta/ necredinta e ceva intim, ca si pozitia preferata de a face sex( nu am intentionat blasfemie si nici misto :) )

  • 42

    @inteligentarade:

    “si tot cautand savantii bosonul lui Dumnezeu”

    … sa=l ia draqu de boson cu cine l-a botezat, ca toata ziua ala se numeste “bosonul Higgs” si nu altfel! :)

  • 43

    @All but inteligentarade:
    De unde au oamenii impresia ca stiinta incepe si se termina pe “national geografic?!”, ba mai mult – stiinta ar fi ceea ce interpreteaza ei din ceea ce vad pe NG?!

    @Yorga: … rezultatul este ca nu mai este ;)

    @inteligentarade: ceea ce (probabil) ai vazut la NG se numeste “speculatie stiintifica” – stiintifca doar pt ca a fost emisa de “oameni de stiinta”. Difereneta intre speculatia stiintifica si teoria stiintifica -ultima fiind cea draga noua – consta in observatiile si experimentele pe care se sprijina! (mult obeservatii care se sprijina una pe alta – in cazul teoriilor stiintifice; respectiv, idei nastrusnice si imposibilitatea de a acumula informatii edificatoare – in cazul speculatiilor).
    Referitor la BigBang, ce se stie sigur, este faptul ca ceva o pushcat acum 13.7 mld ani; dar nu se stie ce, nu se stie nici cat de mare o fo, si nici cati ingeri ar fi incaput pe acel ceva!
    NG se foloseste de metafore pentru a aduce stiinta mai aproape de intelesul “oamenilor de rand”! NG e foare folositor daca vrei sa faci puncte pe trivia, dar, daca te pasioneaza stiinta …fa o facultate, fa-ti doctoratul la o universitate cu renume, petrece-ti 50 de ani in cercetare si vei avea o idee despre unde incepe si unde se termina stiinta.

    StiintaPlange
    2010-02-26 13:17:53 | Raporteaza
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  • 44

    @puscas
    mersi ca mi-ai sters comentariul (era plin de otrava)…vezi ca reusesti bine sa enervezi oamenii (felicitari, daca asta e telul tau suprem in viata). da’ nu mai sunt suparat, ci doar trist, ca exista oameni ca tine. si imi e si frica, pentru faptul ca intr-un context social favorabil violentei oarbe, tu ai fi in stare sa omori o groaza de oameni in numele dumnezeului tau pervert si sadic. sper totusi, ca fanaticii religiosi ca tine vor fi marginalizati de cei care vor sa convietuiasca in pace, guvernati de ratiune si umanism.

  • 45

    @radu fefceac: Nu doar ca nu e ateu militant dar crestinii ca autorul dau dovada de ignoranta selectiva.
    Ca sa fii ateu militant trebuie sa scrii o carte despre parerile tale si sa faci un site unde sa-i aduni pe cei cu aceleasi idei.
    Ca sa fii credincios militant trebuie sa iti legi bombe in jurul pieptului si sa omori oameni. Restul credinciosilor sunt doar “moderati”.

  • 46

    Pretextul articolului este jalnic. Niciun forum nu are control deplin asupra tonului pe care-l folosesc utilizatorii decat daca modereaza toate comentariile, asa cum fac multe, daca nu chiar toate blogurile ortodoxe romanesti.
    Atacul asupra Dawkins folosindu-se de acest pretext este absolut josnic.
    Ii recomand d-lui Puscas lectura operei de popularizare a stiintei a lui Dawkins si apoi combaterea IDEILOR si AFIRMATIILOR reputatului om de stiinta britanic, evident, daca nu cumva va fi convins intre timp de frumusetea si claritatea argumentatiei.

  • 47

    Sunt impresionat de numarul de comentarii primite. Un singur lucru am de adaugat
    ted.com/talks/r../
    Urmariti ce spune la minutul 5, si minutul 8, apropo de militantism sau nu.
    Sunt sigur ca exista multi atei rationali, dar foarte putini dintre ei sunt pe internet. As spune acelasi lucru si despre ateii cu simtul umorului.

  • 48

    S-a mutat tot partidul Verde pe blog la tine :D .
    Ducand ateismul la rang de religie domnul respectiv si-a pus in carca o sumedenie de trolli si anons care nu numai ca sunt extrem de reactivi dar au ca scop lolz-ul si nimic altceva. In momentul in care deistii ignora forumul, respectivii nu mai au lolz-uri si ori dau iama in sit si-i strica toata jucarica ori se retrag dezamagiti.
    Cred ca teistii ar trebui sa ignore ateii complet si sa lase faptele sa vorbeasca pentru ei.

    cipslim
    2010-02-27 12:38:28 | Raporteaza
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  • 49

    Not funny. Defel.

    Parintele Pleoca
    2010-02-27 12:47:54 | Raporteaza
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    StiintaPlange
    2010-02-28 09:32:19 | Raporteaza
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  • 52

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    stefan
    2010-03-09 18:54:13 | Raporteaza
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    temegrerlinge
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    Ovalpinia
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New discoveries and experiments come, and his individual terms and phrases and theories perish. Although his age might prevent his going to war in the open air, he could still fire a gun, immovable in a trench, without fear of death. Tufto perhaps was sulky. Gertrude declares she is willing to share my wanderings and help to pose my models. [url=wrapcandy.com/f../ propel[/url] Did he alone represent France in this mysterious association, evidently composed of individuals of divers nationalities? Let us return to M. Franz d’Epinay. Two of the Germans betook themselves toward the village, and Desnoyers remained with the other officer who was delightfully sampling his liquors. None of them were granted to the proletaires, who, unlike the patricians and knights, were not supplied by the victory with the means of buying them. Suddenly he looked at his watch. [url=spinningdaily.c../ 01 prime[/url] How absurdly nervous you are, my dear fellow! No—he said to himself that it was not. 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And you remember the alligator bag that I told you was exchanged for the one you cut off my arm?” She nodded expectantly. Our children were frequently bitten, yet suffered no harm; and we saw around us numbers of zebras, buffaloes, pigs, pallahs and other antelopes, feeding quietly in the very habitat of the tsetse, yet as undisturbed by its bite as oxen are when they first receive the fatal poison. [url=studentfilmmake../ gatorade[/url] Then she decided some one had been ill and sent for her, so she took courage, and stepping swiftly across the kitchen she unbarred the door and drew back from sight beside the table. Then he put into dock for repairs, and while the defending party weren’t looking he sneaked up the wall at the back and shoved Oswald off, and fell on top of him, so that the fort, now that it had lost its gallant young leader, the life and soul of the besieged party, was of course soon overpowered, and had to surrender. But, sir, you air wrong. Bergson, in his well-known essay on this theme, says…well, he says many things; but none of these, though I have just read them, do I clearly remember, nor am I sure that in the act of reading I understood any of them. [url=sidetick.com/bl../ nutrition label[/url] Marvelous! She, on the contrary, was sober with apparent solicitude and, as soon as I had finished the monster, rushed to me and carefully examined my body for possible wounds or injuries. After many and stormy debates his lordship gained his case by a majority of two votes. On that occasion I should be able to make my own reply. First as a comfort to Fanny, then as an auxiliary, and last as her substitute, she was established at Mansfield, with every appearance of equal permanency. [url=tv.com/users/rv../ products[/url] The whole world was breathless, awaiting the results of the campaign. 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The river was too broad for a ball to reach him, so we let him enjoy himself, certain that he durst not have been guilty of the impertinence in the Bushman country. For six years I had not danced before; it was new fruit, and I took my fill of it, without heeding much what was passing. Although she was so enmeshed in family cares most of the time, she could emerge serene when she was away from them. I see very few women; but those are women of rank. It was His Excellency, with his uniform burst open and smelling of wine.

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  • 6@Dan G. da, am ratat ocazia vietii mele sa fac corporate affairs pentru firme de armament si firme care pompeaza chimicale...
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